Open thread.
This patch hammered Death Knight tanks pretty heavily. Beyond the straight hit to Stamina from the nerf to Frost Presence and VoTW, our cooldown on IBF was increased. All to be expected. However, it's the reported lower threat that is puzzling. I've read similar reports from other level-headed death knight tanks, and I can't fathom the reason. Possible lowered threat, lowered health, and no mitigation from a shield is rough.
On the other hand, Paladin tanking is clearly buffed. Rick's TPS last night was higher than I usually see. Naxxramas is not the best test for this since the mobs are all undead.
I've not seen Warrior tanks in action, but it appears they got a little more valuable shield block.
Druids tank? Where's Tony?
Am I Tony?
So far it just seems like my dodge will be hit by about 2% but threat wise I don't seem to have taken a hit, at least what I've seen on the forums. Of course the nerf to most of my kitty DPS spells does not help me with my DPS. :(
I might be getting on tonight, I'm pestering my friend to pay for the month and I'll pay him back later. :D So I'll get to see what nerfs I got maybe.
Quote from: Turducken on Wed, 2009-08-05 : 11:47
Am I Tony?
Nah, but we know where you are. If you do get on, I would like to hear about your threat and mitigation.
Ah OK, because my RL nickname is Tony also. :D
Yeah I'll let you know.
Quote from: Vitandus on Wed, 2009-08-05 : 11:27
On the other hand, Paladin tanking is clearly buffed. Rick's TPS last night was higher than I usually see. Naxxramas is not the best test for this since the mobs are all undead.
I suspect that is from the buff to SoC?
Friends in two über raiding guilds - world ranked - have made it so Death Knights will no longer tank; Paladins are now the preferred tank for all bosses; Warriors and DKs means one DPS sits for another healer.
Ouch.
Quote from: Vitandus on Wed, 2009-08-05 : 16:13
Friends in two über raiding guilds - world ranked - have made it so Death Knights will no longer tank; Paladins are now the preferred tank for all bosses; Warriors and DKs means one DPS sits for another healer.
Ouch.
PAT WHY ARE YOU SO HARD TO HEAL.
On the bright side, at least your DPS is solid and if DKs were really nerfed to the ground then you can switch your main spec and off spec to fill the gap HDL currently has in melee. Somehow.
I'm sure things will straighten out. Pallies are just FOTM tanks right now.
There was a pretty significant nerf to avoidance for all tanks as well; it probably hit druids the hardest. The change was the increase in the amount of dodge rating required to maintain a percent of dodge. It now roughly equals parry rating in how it scales, although parry rating continues to diminish faster than dodge does.
It separates warriors and paladins from dks and druids, especially with the buffing to block, but it all seems like just a temporary fix for a larger problem. Effective health looks like the way to go in this patch as well.
2% isn't that bad, I started out tanking Ulduar with less dodge so it's not bad.
Quote from: Vitandus on Wed, 2009-08-05 : 11:27I've not seen Warrior tanks in action, but it appears they got a little more valuable shield block.
Extra block means more Shield Slam damage and more mitigation. The Devastate buff is approximately twice as much damage as pre-patch with 5 sunder stacks on the target. This, combined with the T8 Devastate +crit chance is nice.The dodge change didn't hit me too hard. I think I lost ~1.5% for a ~.5% parry gain.
I feel Warrior tanks are just as good as pre-patch. The Paladin change is pretty amazing and I'm half suprised they let it in after the "we think this is too powerful" comment during testing.
Yeah argent defender is amazing
So after tanking in the coliseum I can safely say that my threat was not changed. Survivability is a small issue since I did lose 2% dodge but I could at least hold aggro still.
managed to scrape up some playtime duck? :)
Threat is lower - Skippy was unable to open up immediately with a Bladestorm as I was running to engage. OTOH, maybe this will train people to give the tank a moment to get threat and not make them angry (http://hordedefenseleague.org/index.php/topic,1292.0.html). :judge: I used to be able to peel threat off anyone with a Rune Strike (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=56815) when in combat, or with a Death Strike when opening. Last night I was able to do that a few times when popping Frost with Rick tanking, but nowhere near as often when actually, you know, tanking.
I have to share this IRC chat:
11:25 <@Cel> Paladin Tanks - LOLVERPOWERED
11:29 <@Vitandus> You know what I think is awesome about Paladin tanking? Last Stand with no thought.
11:31 <@Cel> it's more like Paladin Soulstone on a 2 minute cooldown
Cel is a Warrior tank for a über progression guild. Yeah, he's a little bitter.
lol I wish I had a no thought Last Stand too. :(
Have you attempted to tank as Unholy or Frost though? You might want to stick with Blood and that's OK but I'm wondering if Unholy or Frost with it's non-physical damage+AoE capabilities might produce better threat now? They might even improve your survivability with the special talents they give?
I dunno, I'm not a DK Tanking expert like you are, just throwing it out there.
Unholy AoE got hammered into the ground with the change to Unholy Blight. Frost had the mitigation nerfed along with less health.
I'll stick with Blood. It means more strain on the healers and DPS really needs to give me a moment. I've lived through nerfs to every class I've played and I'll get through this as well.
TL;DR:
Bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
/thread
Quote from: Tarn on Wed, 2009-08-05 : 21:57
Quote from: Vitandus on Wed, 2009-08-05 : 11:27I've not seen Warrior tanks in action, but it appears they got a little more valuable shield block.
Extra block means more Shield Slam damage and more mitigation. The Devastate buff is approximately twice as much damage as pre-patch with 5 sunder stacks on the target. This, combined with the T8 Devastate +crit chance is nice.The dodge change didn't hit me too hard. I think I lost ~1.5% for a ~.5% parry gain.
I feel Warrior tanks are just as good as pre-patch. The Paladin change is pretty amazing and I'm half suprised they let it in after the "we think this is too powerful" comment during testing.
Tarnn is right. With the new buff to Shield Block and Devastate it has actually helped increase not only the TPS of Warrior Tanks but also there DPS as well. As for Threat fall off i havent really seen or had any difference when ive tanked so far.