http://honorscode.blogspot.com/2008/11/your-captains-crit-block-hit-and.html
Verifies what has been discussed ad nauseum on the Ventrilo server.
For defense, just to give perspective, the new rare yellow gems give +16 defense rating.
Didn't Blizz change their mind on the effect of resilience in instances? They were going to change it so that it didn't work, but then I thought they backed off that. If so, then some resilience will help again like it did in BC. Bear tanks will be setting nice with Survival of the Fittest (http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33856) which makes them crit immune off the bat (which they can then stack Agi and armor).
For hit cap, the new rare yellow gems give +16 hit rating. But I found a crap load of +hit gear on my way to 80.
Gear Suggestions for reaching the defense Cap
http://www.worldofraids.com/g/56-Reaching_the_Defense_Cap.html#Reaching_the_Defense_Cap
I saw a prot warrior in most (if not all) of that gear last night. He was up to 28k hp unbuffed. It was pretty sick.
Resilience still counts toward crit immunity. It's not just for PvP. Before you spend months busting your ass to get rare heroic boss drops and badge rewards, look up items for your class with resilience rather than defence in slots you haven't purpled yet. Being crit immune is a top priority for tanks but every class will have a much easier time surviving raids and grinding if you put together a decent resilience set like Eviscerator's Leather (http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4.2&filter=qu=3;na=Eviscerator%27s;minrl=71;maxrl=80;cr=21;crs=1;crv=0) for drood ferals (cat and tank) and rogues too.
From http://www.wowwiki.com/Defense (http://www.wowwiki.com/Defense):
- Critical Hit immunity for a level 80 player against a raid boss occurs at 540 Defense and requires a defense skill of 140 from gear to achieve.
- Critical Hit immunity for a level 80 player against a raid boss can also be achieved by a Resilience of 5.6% and requires a resilience rating of 459.2 to achieve.
- The critical hit % reduction from Defense and Resilience % may be combined to reduce the chance of being critically hit by a raid boss by 5.6% making the player immune to critical hits.
Ferals don't need the crit immunity since they should be from talents anyway. The stam is not bad and agi is not bad either (which is why I am making them for my cat), but if you are tanking and don't have 3/3 Survival of the Fittest (or even dpsing as cat without it) you are retarded.
At one time, Blizz was going to remove resilience from working in dungeons (normal and heroic). I have not looked to see if they did. But that was the plan back in beta and I have not seen any post since to contradict it. I'll check later today.
I was trying to pitch the importance of resilience for every other class, not just ferals. The Eviscerator's stuff was just an example (I'm still getting a full 'set' for both tanking and DPS as a starter outfit). I haven't researched other classes to see if they have similar crafted items.
Resilience also reduces the effects of mana drains for any class. For ferals if you PvP at all even more resilience over SotF is never a bad thing, especially since midnight capital raids have gotten popular. HDL also has a bad habit of attacking anything flagged.
Personally, after most of Naxx(10) and Obsidian Sanctum(10)(*)..... for DPS and healing, you are MUCH better off grinding heroics for gear and badges and gearing that way for PvE. Resilience is normally (aside from some SWP drops) poorly itemized for maximizing raid DPS and absolutely hideous for healing raids. And also there is the whole l2p issue that only PvE encounters will really teach. Grinding PvP gear is great if you don't have options or want to PvP. But as a step for raiding.... no, don't agree with that at all. Being crit immune won't help you half as much as learning to play(**).
* - a lot of fights are easier with more sustained DPS and sustainable heals. Without maximizing your potential you are wasting your raids time, mats, and repair costs.
** - heroics are great for learning to play. You have a great personal responsibility in them since almost everyone is not overgearing them anymore. Thus forcing people to maximize what they have and what they can do through talents, abilities, gear, buffs, etc.
In terms of tanking and crit immunity, if the only way you can get immune is via PvP, do it. But I would suggest a better way is to use craftables, quest rewards, etc. and build defense as much as possible as it provides more mitigation through Dodge/Parry/etc. Unless you are a bear and in that case defense can suck it and slap on Stam, Agi, and some hit and expertise.
But, as I mentioned, if PvP is your thing instead, that is what PvP gear is there for.
Unfortunately we are not a raiding guild. Most of us are still trying to get to 80 with mains and alts. Heroics just recently became an option and even then we end up having to pick up random goobers. It's true that defense far superior to resilience for instances, but what I'm looking at is the option of filling in slots with relatively easy to get resilience gear to reach crit immunity until you can get better stuff... a 100% drop rate on something crafted or a quest blue is better than screwing around and dying a lot in 70 purples and green shit while trying to get rare boss drops and slowly building up badges. You're disagreeing with an option that wasn't necessary for you... but back here on the short bus, we have to think about things from the perspective of lots of wipes and probably never even seeing the top end game content. (:
I disagree... true, HDL is not a traditional raiding guild.... but this http://hordedefenseleague.org/index.php/topic,515.msg2670/topicseen.html#new (http://hordedefenseleague.org/index.php/topic,515.msg2670/topicseen.html#new) and
this http://hordedefenseleague.org/index.php/topic,511.msg2671/topicseen.html#new (http://hordedefenseleague.org/index.php/topic,511.msg2671/topicseen.html#new)
say differently. You guys are aiming to step foot into Naxx(10), correct? That is the whole point
of this thread, in fact, to prepare to be viable in Naxx(10). You have tanks, DPS, and healers. Run heroics. If you are afraid of wipes, don't raid or even instance at all. My advice is even if you are just going to dink around in Naxx(10), at least try to maximize your chances. Naxx is fairly easy as raid content goes. But you will be gear checked on Patchwerk and you should (again, IMO) at least try to improve your chances of success. Or not..... it's up to you. Pulling the "we are not a raiding guild" argument on this is a strawman. If you step foot into Naxx(10), IMO, you are a raiding guild while
you are in there.
I agree with you on the craftables, quest rewards, etc. But....
A tank in PvP gear is not the same as a properly geared tank on Patchwerk. Heck even an enraged Maexxna. The time spent getting PvP gear to use to tank Naxx(10) is not going to be as fruitful as spending the same time running instances (normal and heroic). But that is just IMO. Unless you like making the healers jobs near impossible or at the very least even more stressful and the center of blame.
I am not disagreeing because it was unnecessary for me (PvP gear does not replace PvE raiding healing gear so spending time getting PvP healing gear is normally a waste of time for me. Aside from Venture rewards and craftables). I'm disagreeing cause (as a healer) you are proposing something which I consider a waste of time (getting PvP gear to replace defense gear for tanking or getting poorly itemized DPS gear, aside from weapons maybe). But, again, that is just IMO.
In terms of seeing the top end raid content.... everything is/will be 10-manable. The only thing keeping people from seeing it is actually spending the time to run it and learn it (i.e. wiping on it a good bit).
pvp weapons should not be counted in this arguement as they are often some of the best available for dps.
Quote from: tulion on Fri, 2008-12-05 : 12:25
pvp weapons should not be counted in this arguement as they are often some of the best available for dps.
Agreed. Healing ones ain't great normally. But the melee DPS ones are usually quite good.
A quick note, the crit cap is not really a cap, it's more of a minimum requirement if you don't want to be crit. Every point of defense after 540 adds to your avoidance stats (dodge, parry, miss). Not getting hit at all is better than anything else. Aside from a druid who can only gear for dodge, it's not wrong for a tank to go above and beyond 540 defense (with diminishing returns, as everything else). So 540 is more of a starting point, not a cap. And yeah, block is not avoidance, it's mitigation.