i was reading thru the EJ all ret pally thread and discovered our optimum hit rating is 8% (260) so that means alot of us are sitting on way to much hit rating. i know i will be changing out every hit gem i have for +str tomorrow as soon as i log and ill be looking for a new weapon with more rwar stats asap.
I am at 307. Everything I have read says hit rating should be 295 for 9% for raid bosses. Now, if it is 8% (262), then I'll drop some more stuff. Do you have a link?
its in the complete ret pally compendium over on the EJ site. dont pay attention to those tards talking about the phantom 3% hit though. anyone whose sitting at 5% is a retard.
p.s. go look at my dk post, hopefully that will make for more competition in the dps charts :)
Apparantly that 8% is random on some Pallies. It's like hidden extra hit rating from what I've seen. Only some Pallies have it.
Quote from: wildcard on Sun, 2008-12-28 : 22:51
Apparantly that 8% is random on some Pallies. It's like hidden extra hit rating from what I've seen. Only some Pallies have it.
i think youre thinking of the phantom 3% hit bonus. it only appears on pallys who were prot pre 3.0 because there is a talent that gave them 3% more crit and apparently wow still sees them as having it.
I've been reading stuff on other sites as well, and there is some serious debate on the hit issue. I am waffling on this. If it is indeed a lower hit cap, then bummer about passing on the plate leg-guards that dropped (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39280) tonight.
i think im going to drop down to 260 for tuesday and see how it goes. how far did yall get tonight?
We took down Grobbulus, but Gluth was rough.
I am posting this for Rogues if they are interested. from what i have read and seen on Elitist Jerks the current soft hit cap, which is ur spell cap for poisons, for rogues is 99 hit rating if u have 5/5 in percision. if u want to be hit capped u need something like 700+ hit rating which is right now impossible to get. u cant be hit capped anymore but u should have ur poisons hit capped at all time which is 99 hit rating atm. Anything extra ur just wasting ur atp and crit chance.
We couldnt get gluth down casue we werent specced for it. u MUST have improved blizz to kite the zombies. I have done this before in 40 man naxx.
Getting to hit cap (whatever that may be) just to be hit capped is not the best way to increase your dps.
Strength is our best stat. Period. Never gem for hit. Ever.
Gem for strength (and 2 blue gems if you have a chaotic skyflare diamond in your helm) unless the socket bonus allows you to use another gem and still get 16 strength (e.g. Blue socket filled with Sovereign Gem (+8str/+12stam) on an item with a +8 str socket bonus).
That's not to say that hit is useless (unless you're hit capped), but gearing to be hit capped is counter productive. Until cap, hit is our second best stat.
Every piece of gear you decide on needs to be viewed on the whole. I suggest using an app like RAWR or a mod like PAWN to find you best pieces of gear. If that's not an option for you, go to maxdps.com, import your character from the armory and use it as a guideline for upgrades.
Quote from: Listerfiend on Wed, 2008-12-31 : 13:16
Getting to hit cap (whatever that may be) just to be hit capped is not the best way to increase your dps.
Strength is our best stat. Period. Never gem for hit. Ever.
Gem for strength (and 2 blue gems if you have a chaotic skyflare diamond in your helm) unless the socket bonus allows you to use another gem and still get 16 strength (e.g. Blue socket filled with Sovereign Gem (+8str/+12stam) on an item with a +8 str socket bonus).
That's not to say that hit is useless (unless you're hit capped), but gearing to be hit capped is counter productive. Until cap, hit is our second best stat.
Every piece of gear you decide on needs to be viewed on the whole. I suggest using an app like RAWR or a mod like PAWN to find you best pieces of gear. If that's not an option for you, go to maxdps.com, import your character from the armory and use it as a guideline for upgrades.
until hit capped, hit is our BEST stat. you can have 3094753495837495803748093 str but if you only hit the monster once every 10 swings youre wasting your gear and everyones time :)
Quote from: tulion on Wed, 2008-12-31 : 13:59
until hit capped, hit is our BEST stat. you can have 3094753495837495803748093 str but if you only hit the monster once every 10 swings youre wasting your gear and everyones time :)
That's not the case at all. Strength is always, bar-none, without a doubt, beyond question a ret palladin's best stat, period.
If you're not hit capped, it doesn't mean that you wont hit a boss. It means that 9% (or 8) of the time, you will miss. The other 91% (or 92) of the time you will hit, glance, crit, dodge, parry or block.
If you could take all of your gear and make a copy of it but change all of your hit to the equivilant amount of strength based on item values, such that you had 0 hit rating, your dps would increase, not decrease.
STR
HIT
'nuf said :lightsaberduel:
What's the final answer on this? 263 (8%) or 296 (9%)?
9%
Take a look at the full T7 set (http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=789). A total of 68 hit rating. Drop the crap helm and keep your Titansteel Helm, and you have 99 hit rating. That's a bit of ground to cover.
The running theory is that it's 8%. The ghost hit (if you had it) has been hotfixed. I got naked the other day and hit the dummy about 3k times and had 7.9% miss, so it looks like 8 is the number.
BUT,
Don't gear for hit. Hit is a stat just like strength, expertise, and crit. All stats boost your dps; some are just better than others at doing so. Strength is the best and is what you should stack. Hit comes in second. That's not to say that hit is bad. It means that Strength is better, but 1 strength is not better than 10 hit.
You have to evaluate each piece of gear in total and compare it to the piece you'd be replacing with it.
I agree - you have to look at the big picture. (How I wish people had this ability in all things in life.... but I digress.) Hit is less important when you are just white damage. However, when you start throwing in any special damage, esp. one with a cooldown (as most have), a miss is potentially a huge drop in DPS. You can compensate with more base damage to a point. For example, if you are not near hit cap for your Death Knight and you blow your Runic Power pool and miss a couple of times, your DPS is gonna get hammered.
To Listerfiend's point, though, if you are in leveling gear and carrying 1000 AP at level 80, but are hit capped, that's not good, either.
Just kinda miffed at the T7 set right now. The set bonus, especially at 4 pieces, is great. However, take a look at the gear replacement I have right now:
http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=37193;39636
http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=39633;37722
Drop of 9 in STR is 20 AP. Who cares. The 125 drop in hit? Ouch.
Yes, I know, :'( more.
you MUST have your specials (yellow) attacks hit capped at all times. there are no exceptions this applies to all melee dps classes. Hit rating > all stats for dps classes, till u hit the soft cap for ur class.
Quote from: iinimaii on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 08:48
you MUST have your specials (yellow) attacks hit capped at all times. there are no exceptions this applies to all melee dps classes. Hit rating > all stats for dps classes, till u hit the soft cap for ur class.
I really hate to argue and don't want to start any fuss but this is just plain not the case. Hit rating may be the best stat for some classes (rogues, fury warriors?) but for a ret palladin, it's not. Strength > All Else.
it doesnt matter howmuch str u have if u cant land a hit ur not doing dps.
Just from a quick analysis from a non-pally....
Judgement is your highest DPS ability. Using it on each CD is required for maximum DPS. CD is 8 sec. Judgement of the Wise is a needed Replenishment buff and procs off Judgements.
So, a miss on your Judgement is not just a wasted 16 seconds (time from last Judgement to next possible Judgement), but it is also quite possibly missed Replenishment for the entire raid. Which translates into DIRECT loss of DPS for some classes and possibly less mana for healers in fights such as Patchwerk or Raz. In 10 mans, you may be the ONLY Replenishment source. Not keeping it up is potentially a lot of wasted mana. 5 min fight with Judgements every 8 seconds is about 37 Judgements. With 8% miss, you will on average miss 3 times during the fight. May not seem like much, but it can add up quite easily when you multiply out the potentially 10 raid members who missed mana return due directly to you not gearing for hit on your Judgements. Almost all healers now gear for Int for Replenishment. So, loss of it directly hurts them.
Given the choice between a Ret pally with 10% less DPS, but hit capped and a pally who isn't hit capped, I would take the hit capped pally 100% of the time. If a pally can't gear himself to help the group, why should I heal his sorry ass when he Judges blood?
Your second highest DPS ability is your white damage (aka Swing). Getting hit capped for it is not possible atm, but you can significantly increase the hit chance by getting hit capped for your specials (such as Judgements). So, being hit capped helps with both the highest and second highest DPS abilities quite significantly.
In all cases that I know about for all DPS, you want to be hit capped for your direct abilities (or damn near it) before you swap gear for other stats.
With food buff and Elixir of Accuracy you can get 85 rating alone. Heroics gear can easily get the remaining 180 or so for Raid bosses (heroics themselves don't take much in the way of hit, but a little goes a LONG way).
As Kellanon mentioned, you have to be reasonable, but honestly, getting hit capped is quite reasonable with Heroic gear and enchants WITHOUT sacrificing significant DPS stats.
Being hit capped for specials may not be crucial for Pallies as it is for warriors, rogues, and cats, but it is very important for providing the best for the group and potentially for your own DPS.
Quote from: Listerfiend on Wed, 2008-12-31 : 15:45
If you're not hit capped, it doesn't mean that you wont hit a boss. It means that 9% (or 8) of the time, you will miss. The other 91% (or 92) of the time you will hit, glance, crit, dodge, parry or block.
As said before, 0 hit rating does not equal 0 hits.
Quote from: One Ear on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 11:01
Judgement is your highest DPS ability. Using it on each CD is required for maximum DPS. CD is 8 sec. Judgement of the Wise is a needed Replenishment buff and procs off Judgements.
So, a miss on your Judgement is not just a wasted 16 seconds (time from last Judgement to next possible Judgement), but it is also quite possibly missed Replenishment for the entire raid. Which translates into DIRECT loss of DPS for some classes and possibly less mana for healers in fights such as Patchwerk or Raz. In 10 mans, you may be the ONLY Replenishment source. Not keeping it up is potentially a lot of wasted mana. 5 min fight with Judgements every 8 seconds is about 37 Judgements. With 8% miss, you will on average miss 3 times during the fight. May not seem like much, but it can add up quite easily when you multiply out the potentially 10 raid members who missed mana return due directly to you not gearing for hit on your Judgements. Almost all healers now gear for Int for Replenishment. So, loss of it directly hurts them.
This is a very good argument as to why hit is good and I agree with it. I never said hit was bad. It's great. It's not the greatest though. It's the second greatest. Missed Judgements hurt for sure. They hurt bad, but it's not an end-of-the-world thing.
Quote from: One Ear on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 11:01
Given the choice between a Ret pally with 10% less DPS, but hit capped and a pally who isn't hit capped, I would take the hit capped pally 100% of the time. If a pally can't gear himself to help the group, why should I heal his sorry ass when he Judges blood?
You'd be shoting yourself in the foot if you did so. A pally (or any dps for that matter) gears himself to help the raid by doing the most damage they can so the boss dies faster. That's dps' job. No one has 0 hit rating. That's nigh impossible with wrath gear. Say someone is half way to hit cap giving them a 4% chance to miss. how many missed judgements are you going to see in a boss fight? 1? 2? 0? Not many and a missed judgement, while it sucks, is not a 10% decrease in dps.
Quote from: One Ear on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 11:01
Getting hit capped for it is not possible atm, but you can significantly increase the hit chance by getting hit capped for your specials (such as Judgements).
Hit cap for a 2hand user is 8% same as it is for special cap. If you're capped for specials, you're capped for white damage too.
Quote from: One Ear on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 11:01
As Kellanon mentioned, you have to be reasonable, but honestly, getting hit capped is quite reasonable with Heroic gear and enchants WITHOUT sacrificing significant DPS stats.
Being hit capped for specials may not be crucial for Pallies as it is for warriors, rogues, and cats, but it is very important for providing the best for the group and potentially for your own DPS.
This^^. Being capped is not crucial for pallies but it's a great way to up you dps, as I've mentioned a few times, but you have to be reasonable about it.
I am hit capped. I didn't gear for it. I DEFINITELY didn't gem or chant for hit (well, i got Icewalker, but that's just cause it's itemized the best). I did it by looking at each piece of gear that dropped and compairing it to what I had equipped based on given weightings for each stat. You can get those weighting for the EJ forums @ http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t36972-redcapes_ret_dps_calculator_new_edition_out_12_14_08_v2_2_a/.
Quote from: Listerfiend on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 12:38
I am hit capped. I didn't gear for it. I DEFINITELY didn't gem or chant for hit (well, i got Icewalker, but that's just cause it's itemized the best). I did it by looking at each piece of gear that dropped and compairing it to what I had equipped based on given weightings for each stat. You can get those weighting for the EJ forums @ http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t36972-redcapes_ret_dps_calculator_new_edition_out_12_14_08_v2_2_a/.
Once you are capped, you don't need to gem or enchant for it. But if you aren't capped, you should do what you need to do to get there for the job you are doing. 25 mans vs. 10 mans are different. Misery or Imp FF makes up some of the hit for you, etc.
I was taking offense at:
Quote from: Listerfiend on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 09:18
Strength > All Else.
Without qualification, that is wrong. And this is a discussion on hit, so.....
I believe that if you are not hit capped and you take Str over hit, then that is not the most effective thing to do.
Weightings are great and make gear choice a lot easier, I agree. As long as the weightings make sense for build and role and gear level.
Quote from: One Ear on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 13:17
Quote from: Listerfiend on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 12:38
I am hit capped. I didn't gear for it. I DEFINITELY didn't gem or chant for hit (well, i got Icewalker, but that's just cause it's itemized the best). I did it by looking at each piece of gear that dropped and compairing it to what I had equipped based on given weightings for each stat. You can get those weighting for the EJ forums @ http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t36972-redcapes_ret_dps_calculator_new_edition_out_12_14_08_v2_2_a/.
Once you are capped, you don't need to gem or enchant for it. But if you aren't capped, you should do what you need to do to get there for the job you are doing. 25 mans vs. 10 mans are different. Misery or Imp FF makes up some of the hit for you, etc.
I was taking offense at:
Quote from: Listerfiend on Wed, 2009-01-14 : 09:18
Strength > All Else.
Without qualification, that is wrong. And this is a discussion on hit, so.....
I believe that if you are not hit capped and you take Str over hit, then that is not the most effective thing to do.
Weightings are great and make gear choice a lot easier, I agree. As long as the weightings make sense for build and role and gear level.
Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree at this point. Point for point, Strength is better than Hit for a ret paladin. Tests have been run, numbers have been crunched and proof has been given that this is the case.
All this number crunching.....You fuckers need to get laid
(One Ear is exempt because his Johnson is as big as I am)